Q&A With Rep. Martin Heinrich On Defense, Drugs & Education
For The Independent newspaper, Edgewood, N.M., Sept. 2, 2009.
By Scott Albright 09/02/2009
On August 24 I sat down with New Mexico District 1 Rep. Martin Heinrich for a 30 minute interview where I asked questions about defense, drugs, healthcare and education. The following is a transcript of the recording from that interview.
SA: I want to start off with the war in Afghanistan. Currently a lot of the commanders are saying that we need to increase troop levels even more there. So I’m wondering what is your position is on that? Do you want to see more troops or not?
MH: “I think in the long term I want to see us out of Afghanistan but I think we have a responsibility to leave there in a responsible way and to stabilize the situation in Afghanistan and to work with their government to get a handle on security before we depart. I’m very pleased to see the draw down in Iraq being on schedule and I think that will give us some flexibility to address some of the security issues in Afghanistan. So it’s not an ideal situation. We kind of let that whole mess fester for a number of years and I think it’s going to require some intensive attention, and my hope is that by giving that attention to it now it will actually shorten the time period to when we can bring all of our troops home from Afghanistan.”
SA: Do you have a number of troops in your mind that you think would be necessary to accomplish the mission in Afghanistan?
MH: “No. I’ve been in conversation with the leadership that comes and speaks in front of the House Armed Services Committee. I was briefed by Secretary Gates and sec Clinton before leaving on the August break and I think they’re utilizing an adaptive approach. As a civilian I’m not going to come up with a magic number that’s not based in reality. I think the key is giving it the kind of attention it should of had six years ago, eight years ago so that we can bring some stability, train the Afghans and enable them to provide their own security.
SA: Representative James McGovern introduced a Afghanistan exit strategy bill. Do you support this bill and why or why not?
MH: “I voted for a similar measure when we were going through the appropriations process and it simply said that we should have an exit strategy for Afghanistan. I think that in any conflict overseas that we’re involved in that we have to think about what are the goals? What does meeting those goals actually look like and then how do we get out afterwards? I think it’s a mistake to spend years not defining what victory looks like. So I think it’s very important to have an exit strategy whether you’re talking about east Africa in the 1990’s, or Iraq in the early 2000’s, or Afghanistan today. I think that’s a very important part of being able to not only bringing our troops home, but to accomplish a logical set of goals.”
SA: So you didn’t really answer if you would. . .
MH: “I would support the legislation, yeah. The provision that we voted on was fairly close to the legislation.”
SA: Can you kind of explain what your role is in the House Armed Services Committee and also what you do in terms of regulation defense spending?
MH: “In terms of defense spending we just passed an overhaul of procurement process and that was a long bipartisan effort trying to get costs down within the defense industry. We were able to get that out of committee with strong support on both sides of the aisle.”
“In terms of my role specifically on armed services there are a couple subcommittees I sit on. One is called Readiness, and one of the things it does is it creates the military construction list of priority projects. So, for example, we were able to see $5.8 million in funding secured for the space development test wing here at Kirtland through my efforts on that committee. Kirtland is beginning to be a real focus for cutting edge space technology and activities - everything from space weather and the new facilities going in out there to . . . I’ll call it the weather that impacts our satellites and things like that to Operationally Responsive Space, which is about creating satellites cheaper, faster.”
“I would say that if you ever heard the story about how we spent a lot of time and effort and a lot of money trying to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity space and the Russians just used pencils. That’s kind of what ORS is about. It’s about rather than having these hugely expensive, incredible satellites that can do 100 things perfectly, sometimes it’s more responsive to the needs we have to do 80 percent of that really well and have something that costs a tenth as much. So there’s some really exciting stuff going on at Kirtland as a result.”
“The other committee that I sit on is called the Strategic Forces Committee. It deals largely with policies surrounding spacecraft, satellites, strategic weapons systems ranging from the nuclear deterrent to missile defense. It deals directly with the Department of Energy and NNSA activities that go on at Sandia National Labs. So it’s a good place for me to be in working with Sandia and what’s important for New Mexico in terms of jobs to be on that Strategic Forces Subcommittee.”
SA: I want to start off with the war in Afghanistan. Currently a lot of the commanders are saying that we need to increase troop levels even more there. So I’m wondering what is your position is on that? Do you want to see more troops or not?
MH: “I think in the long term I want to see us out of Afghanistan but I think we have a responsibility to leave there in a responsible way and to stabilize the situation in Afghanistan and to work with their government to get a handle on security before we depart. I’m very pleased to see the draw down in Iraq being on schedule and I think that will give us some flexibility to address some of the security issues in Afghanistan. So it’s not an ideal situation. We kind of let that whole mess fester for a number of years and I think it’s going to require some intensive attention, and my hope is that by giving that attention to it now it will actually shorten the time period to when we can bring all of our troops home from Afghanistan.”
SA: Do you have a number of troops in your mind that you think would be necessary to accomplish the mission in Afghanistan?
MH: “No. I’ve been in conversation with the leadership that comes and speaks in front of the House Armed Services Committee. I was briefed by Secretary Gates and sec Clinton before leaving on the August break and I think they’re utilizing an adaptive approach. As a civilian I’m not going to come up with a magic number that’s not based in reality. I think the key is giving it the kind of attention it should of had six years ago, eight years ago so that we can bring some stability, train the Afghans and enable them to provide their own security.
SA: Representative James McGovern introduced a Afghanistan exit strategy bill. Do you support this bill and why or why not?
MH: “I voted for a similar measure when we were going through the appropriations process and it simply said that we should have an exit strategy for Afghanistan. I think that in any conflict overseas that we’re involved in that we have to think about what are the goals? What does meeting those goals actually look like and then how do we get out afterwards? I think it’s a mistake to spend years not defining what victory looks like. So I think it’s very important to have an exit strategy whether you’re talking about east Africa in the 1990’s, or Iraq in the early 2000’s, or Afghanistan today. I think that’s a very important part of being able to not only bringing our troops home, but to accomplish a logical set of goals.”
SA: So you didn’t really answer if you would. . .
MH: “I would support the legislation, yeah. The provision that we voted on was fairly close to the legislation.”
SA: Can you kind of explain what your role is in the House Armed Services Committee and also what you do in terms of regulation defense spending?
MH: “In terms of defense spending we just passed an overhaul of procurement process and that was a long bipartisan effort trying to get costs down within the defense industry. We were able to get that out of committee with strong support on both sides of the aisle.”
“In terms of my role specifically on armed services there are a couple subcommittees I sit on. One is called Readiness, and one of the things it does is it creates the military construction list of priority projects. So, for example, we were able to see $5.8 million in funding secured for the space development test wing here at Kirtland through my efforts on that committee. Kirtland is beginning to be a real focus for cutting edge space technology and activities - everything from space weather and the new facilities going in out there to . . . I’ll call it the weather that impacts our satellites and things like that to Operationally Responsive Space, which is about creating satellites cheaper, faster.”
“I would say that if you ever heard the story about how we spent a lot of time and effort and a lot of money trying to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity space and the Russians just used pencils. That’s kind of what ORS is about. It’s about rather than having these hugely expensive, incredible satellites that can do 100 things perfectly, sometimes it’s more responsive to the needs we have to do 80 percent of that really well and have something that costs a tenth as much. So there’s some really exciting stuff going on at Kirtland as a result.”
“The other committee that I sit on is called the Strategic Forces Committee. It deals largely with policies surrounding spacecraft, satellites, strategic weapons systems ranging from the nuclear deterrent to missile defense. It deals directly with the Department of Energy and NNSA activities that go on at Sandia National Labs. So it’s a good place for me to be in working with Sandia and what’s important for New Mexico in terms of jobs to be on that Strategic Forces Subcommittee.”
SA: So were you essential in getting some of this funding for, I guess Kirtland just recently tested a TACSAT-2 and their calibrating that right now?
MH: “Yes, that’s part of the ORS program.”
Heinrich explained how he helped to get a new mission for the Air National Guard’s 150th Fighter Wing at Kirtland Air Force Base:
MH: “Without being on armed services it would have been very difficult to do that work. We were able to get language in both the defense authorization bill and the defense appropriations bill to tell the Air Force that before they retire this wing they have to come up with the next mission and figure out a transition plan. That’s important work that we could not have done - it would have been very difficult to do that not being on one of the committees of jurisdiction.”
SA: Do you think spending on weapons procurement is beneficial to national security or does it add fuel to the fire of the international arms race?
MH: “I think it depends on how you administer those dollars. I don’t want to spend money just to spend money. I want to spend money to secure our national defense. We need to do a more effective job of making sure those dollars are spent as effectively as possible. We see the importance of this if you look at the conflict in Iraq. It took us a number of years to get vehicles that were safe for our soldiers and our Marines in Iraq. Today we have the MRAPs that are fantastic because they survive IED explosions and they effectively protect our troops. The vehicles that we were sending our soldiers and Marines out with six years ago in my opinion were not a good use of the dollar because they weren’t designed to protect those men and women, or they weren’t effective at protecting them. It’s not just about the dollar amounts it’s about spending those dollars wisely and making sure we get the outcome that we want.”
SA: There was a $200,000 request for Torrance County Sherriff's Department to help fight drugs. Can you tell me what the status of this request is?
MH: “I would love to. We were able to get that funded in the House appropriations bills. So there’s still the hurdle of the senate left but it looks very good for that funding and so long as it’s not taken out in the senate process it looks like we’re going to be successful at funding that program. The caveat is it’s not a done deal until it gets through the Senate. but in terms of House process we were successful in terms of securing funding for that program. Same thing with the Estancia Main Street Project which was part of our Department of Transportation request. I believe $250,000 was in the House appropriations transportation bill that came out.”
SA: I’m kind of wondering what your thoughts are on fighting drugs, setting aside the money for police work. Is there any kind of approach you have for dealing with the problem here?
MH: “I think some of the best ideas come from local law enforcement and so I think both supporting what’s working at the local level through appropriations grants and supporting some of the federal grant programs like the COPS program and the BURN programs. We don’t always get the funding through those but I think they’re very effective ways when we do of utilizing that money in a way that really helps at the local level. The nature of the problem in Santa Fe County versus Torrance County versus Bernalillo County is never identical. The helpful part about those kind of grant programs is that when you can get your projects funded they’re well informed and controlled by a sheriff that’s in touch with the local community. I think that’s helpful.”
SA: Do you have a position on legalizing or decriminalizing any illegal substances?
MH: “Only in that in terms of palliative care. That it should be in the realm of doctors to do that and not become a big political battle. I trust doctors to make the decisions that are in the best interest of their patients.”
SA: There was one thing you said when asked about the public health option. You said that if the bill is passed as it’s currently crafted that you would be happy to sign on to a public option. Do you still stand by that statement? :
MH: “The way the public option is crafted in HR 3200, which is the house bill, I would be very comfortable being part of that program.“
SA: What would prevent you from signing on?
MH: “There have been efforts on the senate side to do a different kind of approach and I would want to review those and see if they really have the same impact on the system as a whole and how they’re structured before I’d just jump on board. I’d want to read the details basically.”
SA: They’re have been a lot of schools that have failed or haven’t met AYP. I’m just wondering what’s being done at federal level to improved education here in New Mexico.
MH: “I’m going to make a little bit of a commentary on AYP. My son goes to an elementary school that at least a year or two ago did not meet AYP and it is a fantastic elementary school. It would be difficult for me to find an elementary school anywhere in the country that does a better job. We have to be careful when you say a school didn’t meet AYP - I think that’s absolutely correct, but when say a school failed - if you have 37 measurements and a school meets 36 of those and does it well and they have one area where they have to improve I don’t like to call those schools failing schools because they’re doing so much right. I do think we need to look at No Child Left Behind to make sure its serving our schools, which are different than schools in New York and schools in California and across the country. In particular what I would like to see changed in the way that NCLB has worked, No Child left behind, is if you have a teacher who has a child come in and say they’re teaching fifth grade and the child comes in at the second grade reading level, if they move to the fourth grade reading level in their fifth grade year and they make a big jump like that of two years, we have to find a way of recognizing that that is a success even though they’re not at the fifth grade reading level yet. The moniker for that is growth models of progress. I think that is really Important because if you have a class that comes in and they’re well behind where you would like them to be for that grade level but you make substantial progress we need to be able to measure that and quantify it and say that’s how we get to AYP, that’s how we get to success, and not brand that as a failure. The other thing I would like to see is if you have a class of fourth graders that you track their progress individually over time and that you don’t compare this year’s fourth graders with last year’s fourth graders, because that doesn’t teach you anything about the individual challenge areas. What you need to know is Sally or Billy is having this challenge and how do we change that, how do we give them the tools to do better at reading? But just to test Billy’s reading scores and compare it to whoever the child was who sat in his desk the year before, that doesn’t help the teacher do a better job. It may have some statistical value, but it doesn’t help to better instruct our kids, which is the goal we want to get to.”
SA: What still needs to be done during this legislative session?
MH: “We need to work on appropriations. I think that’s very important. There are a lot of projects in central New Mexico that are riding on that. We need to finish the debate over health care. That’s going to take a little while and won’t be easy, but when you have a state like New Mexico that has premiums that are growing so fast, when you have so many uninsured here. If we do reform well it will have a disproportionate impact on New Mexico. So I really believe we need to get that done. And then my hope my hope is that next year we’ll be able to really turn our attention more towards education and focus on. . . As you said it’s something everybody in central New Mexico really cares about.”
MH: “Yes, that’s part of the ORS program.”
Heinrich explained how he helped to get a new mission for the Air National Guard’s 150th Fighter Wing at Kirtland Air Force Base:
MH: “Without being on armed services it would have been very difficult to do that work. We were able to get language in both the defense authorization bill and the defense appropriations bill to tell the Air Force that before they retire this wing they have to come up with the next mission and figure out a transition plan. That’s important work that we could not have done - it would have been very difficult to do that not being on one of the committees of jurisdiction.”
SA: Do you think spending on weapons procurement is beneficial to national security or does it add fuel to the fire of the international arms race?
MH: “I think it depends on how you administer those dollars. I don’t want to spend money just to spend money. I want to spend money to secure our national defense. We need to do a more effective job of making sure those dollars are spent as effectively as possible. We see the importance of this if you look at the conflict in Iraq. It took us a number of years to get vehicles that were safe for our soldiers and our Marines in Iraq. Today we have the MRAPs that are fantastic because they survive IED explosions and they effectively protect our troops. The vehicles that we were sending our soldiers and Marines out with six years ago in my opinion were not a good use of the dollar because they weren’t designed to protect those men and women, or they weren’t effective at protecting them. It’s not just about the dollar amounts it’s about spending those dollars wisely and making sure we get the outcome that we want.”
SA: There was a $200,000 request for Torrance County Sherriff's Department to help fight drugs. Can you tell me what the status of this request is?
MH: “I would love to. We were able to get that funded in the House appropriations bills. So there’s still the hurdle of the senate left but it looks very good for that funding and so long as it’s not taken out in the senate process it looks like we’re going to be successful at funding that program. The caveat is it’s not a done deal until it gets through the Senate. but in terms of House process we were successful in terms of securing funding for that program. Same thing with the Estancia Main Street Project which was part of our Department of Transportation request. I believe $250,000 was in the House appropriations transportation bill that came out.”
SA: I’m kind of wondering what your thoughts are on fighting drugs, setting aside the money for police work. Is there any kind of approach you have for dealing with the problem here?
MH: “I think some of the best ideas come from local law enforcement and so I think both supporting what’s working at the local level through appropriations grants and supporting some of the federal grant programs like the COPS program and the BURN programs. We don’t always get the funding through those but I think they’re very effective ways when we do of utilizing that money in a way that really helps at the local level. The nature of the problem in Santa Fe County versus Torrance County versus Bernalillo County is never identical. The helpful part about those kind of grant programs is that when you can get your projects funded they’re well informed and controlled by a sheriff that’s in touch with the local community. I think that’s helpful.”
SA: Do you have a position on legalizing or decriminalizing any illegal substances?
MH: “Only in that in terms of palliative care. That it should be in the realm of doctors to do that and not become a big political battle. I trust doctors to make the decisions that are in the best interest of their patients.”
SA: There was one thing you said when asked about the public health option. You said that if the bill is passed as it’s currently crafted that you would be happy to sign on to a public option. Do you still stand by that statement? :
MH: “The way the public option is crafted in HR 3200, which is the house bill, I would be very comfortable being part of that program.“
SA: What would prevent you from signing on?
MH: “There have been efforts on the senate side to do a different kind of approach and I would want to review those and see if they really have the same impact on the system as a whole and how they’re structured before I’d just jump on board. I’d want to read the details basically.”
SA: They’re have been a lot of schools that have failed or haven’t met AYP. I’m just wondering what’s being done at federal level to improved education here in New Mexico.
MH: “I’m going to make a little bit of a commentary on AYP. My son goes to an elementary school that at least a year or two ago did not meet AYP and it is a fantastic elementary school. It would be difficult for me to find an elementary school anywhere in the country that does a better job. We have to be careful when you say a school didn’t meet AYP - I think that’s absolutely correct, but when say a school failed - if you have 37 measurements and a school meets 36 of those and does it well and they have one area where they have to improve I don’t like to call those schools failing schools because they’re doing so much right. I do think we need to look at No Child Left Behind to make sure its serving our schools, which are different than schools in New York and schools in California and across the country. In particular what I would like to see changed in the way that NCLB has worked, No Child left behind, is if you have a teacher who has a child come in and say they’re teaching fifth grade and the child comes in at the second grade reading level, if they move to the fourth grade reading level in their fifth grade year and they make a big jump like that of two years, we have to find a way of recognizing that that is a success even though they’re not at the fifth grade reading level yet. The moniker for that is growth models of progress. I think that is really Important because if you have a class that comes in and they’re well behind where you would like them to be for that grade level but you make substantial progress we need to be able to measure that and quantify it and say that’s how we get to AYP, that’s how we get to success, and not brand that as a failure. The other thing I would like to see is if you have a class of fourth graders that you track their progress individually over time and that you don’t compare this year’s fourth graders with last year’s fourth graders, because that doesn’t teach you anything about the individual challenge areas. What you need to know is Sally or Billy is having this challenge and how do we change that, how do we give them the tools to do better at reading? But just to test Billy’s reading scores and compare it to whoever the child was who sat in his desk the year before, that doesn’t help the teacher do a better job. It may have some statistical value, but it doesn’t help to better instruct our kids, which is the goal we want to get to.”
SA: What still needs to be done during this legislative session?
MH: “We need to work on appropriations. I think that’s very important. There are a lot of projects in central New Mexico that are riding on that. We need to finish the debate over health care. That’s going to take a little while and won’t be easy, but when you have a state like New Mexico that has premiums that are growing so fast, when you have so many uninsured here. If we do reform well it will have a disproportionate impact on New Mexico. So I really believe we need to get that done. And then my hope my hope is that next year we’ll be able to really turn our attention more towards education and focus on. . . As you said it’s something everybody in central New Mexico really cares about.”
